[Freeswitch-users] FreeSwitch/voip on EC2 or other cloud/virtual services

Discussion:

Sanjay Arora

2011-07-05 11:00:41 UTC

Hello all

I am looking to find out from users about voip on cloud, especially FS on
Amazon EC2. Google gave very few results. There were very few positive
posts/articles, among them Eric Wickstrom's post on this list around
2009<http://www.spinics.net/lists/freeswitch/msg03870.html>but many
seemed to be having clock/echo related problems.

I would like to ask if any of you are successfully using Amazon as a voip
hosting provider & what are the issues involved/stumbling blocks.

I am looking to install a sme multi-tenant production system and will be
selling voip minutes to a small focus target segment. I am mostly a
marketing man & a small-time hobby sys-admin, so I'd also like to know how
difficult it is.

On a side note, I would like to solicit your opinion of Sipwise free & pro
edition <http://www.sipwise.com/products/comparison/> especially with
respect to deployment on Amazon cloud.

With best regards & thanks.
Sanjay.
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Steven Ayre

2011-07-05 12:23:19 UTC

Permalink

I haven't personally, but I have seen some people on the list using EC2 for
FS. AFAIK it will work, essentially, for some value of work.

However, when running a realtime server such as FS on a virtual machine you
have to bear in mind that the guest OS has little control of timing. The
host can take away processing time unpredictibly for other tasks, especially
if the server is quite loaded. That means that keeping a constant timer
running can be tricky for FS to do, which is why you saw many people have
had clock and audio quality problems. Jitter buffers will cover it up, but
can only do so much.

How well it performs is probably best determined by setting it up yourself
and doing some testing.

-Steve

Post by Sanjay Arora
Hello all
I am looking to find out from users about voip on cloud, especially FS on
Amazon EC2. Google gave very few results. There were very few positive
posts/articles, among them Eric Wickstrom's post on this list around 2009<http://www.spinics.net/lists/freeswitch/msg03870.html>but many seemed to be having clock/echo related problems.
I would like to ask if any of you are successfully using Amazon as a voip
hosting provider & what are the issues involved/stumbling blocks.
I am looking to install a sme multi-tenant production system and will be
selling voip minutes to a small focus target segment. I am mostly a
marketing man & a small-time hobby sys-admin, so I'd also like to know how
difficult it is.
On a side note, I would like to solicit your opinion of Sipwise free & pro
edition <http://www.sipwise.com/products/comparison/> especially with
respect to deployment on Amazon cloud.
With best regards & thanks.
Sanjay.
_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
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Avi Marcus

2011-07-05 12:31:46 UTC

Permalink

I keep hearing that amazon has unpredictable timing - I've been using
Linode - xen - without any issues for FS for low volume. I tested 200
MOH channels on the lowest plan with only a few dropped packets. If
you're running that volume, you can afford more than $20/month for
their cheapest box with up to 39 other people on the same machine.

Linode says their CPU is the most under-utilized resource. The clock
tests in FS have always been good, but you can experiment with the
1000hz centos or new tickless + timerfd or something. But I've had
very good experience with Linode for my virtualization. (just don't go
California datacenter, HE has been having trouble...)

-Avi Marcus

Post by Steven Ayre
I haven't personally, but I have seen some people on the list using EC2 for
FS. AFAIK it will work, essentially, for some value of work.
However, when running a realtime server such as FS on a virtual machine you
have to bear in mind that the guest OS has little control of timing. The
host can take away processing time unpredictibly for other tasks, especially
if the server is quite loaded. That means that keeping a constant timer
running can be tricky for FS to do, which is why you saw many people have
had clock and audio quality problems. Jitter buffers will cover it up, but
can only do so much.
How well it performs is probably best determined by setting it up yourself
and doing some testing.
-Steve

Post by Sanjay Arora
Hello all
I am looking to find out from users about voip on cloud, especially FS on
Amazon EC2. Google gave very few results. There were very few positive
posts/articles, among them Eric Wickstrom's post on this list around 2009
but many seemed to be having clock/echo related problems.
I would like to ask if any of you are successfully using Amazon as a voip
hosting provider & what are the issues involved/stumbling blocks.
I am looking to install a sme multi-tenant production system and will be
selling voip minutes to a small focus target segment. I am mostly a
marketing man & a small-time hobby sys-admin, so I'd also like to know how
difficult it is.
On a side note, I would like to solicit your opinion of Sipwise free & pro
edition especially with respect to deployment on Amazon cloud.
With best regards & thanks.
Sanjay.
_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list
FreeSWITCH-users at lists.freeswitch.org
http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users
http://www.freeswitch.org

_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list
FreeSWITCH-users at lists.freeswitch.org
http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
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Giovanni Maruzzelli

2011-07-05 13:22:13 UTC

Permalink

Honest: if you are not very, very, very into knowledge about kernels,
how kernels keep timing, xen, FreeSWITCH, etc (but very into
knowledge) *don't* put a production system in the cloud.
Ask some consultant to do it for you (if you want to be in the cloud),
or rent a real hardware server from some good server provider.
-giovanni

Post by Avi Marcus
I keep hearing that amazon has unpredictable timing - I've been using
Linode - xen - without any issues for FS for low volume. I tested 200
MOH channels on the lowest plan with only a few dropped packets. If
you're running that volume, you can afford more than $20/month for
their cheapest box with up to 39 other people on the same machine.
Linode says their CPU is the most under-utilized resource. The clock
tests in FS have always been good, but you can experiment with the
1000hz centos or new tickless + timerfd or something. But I've had
very good experience with Linode for my virtualization. (just don't go
California datacenter, HE has been having trouble...)
-Avi Marcus

Post by Sanjay Arora
Hello all
I am looking to find out from users about voip on cloud, especially FS on
Amazon EC2. Google gave very few results. There were very few positive
posts/articles, among them Eric Wickstrom's post on this list around 2009
but many seemed to be having clock/echo related problems.
I would like to ask if any of you are successfully using Amazon as a voip
hosting provider & what are the issues involved/stumbling blocks.
I am looking to install a sme multi-tenant production system and will be
selling voip minutes to a small focus target segment. I am mostly a
marketing man & a small-time hobby sys-admin, so I'd also like to know how
difficult it is.
On a side note, I would like to solicit your opinion of Sipwise free & pro
edition especially with respect to deployment on Amazon cloud.
With best regards & thanks.
Sanjay.
_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list
FreeSWITCH-users at lists.freeswitch.org
http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users
http://www.freeswitch.org

--
Sent from my mobile device

Sincerely,

Giovanni Maruzzelli
Cell : +39-347-2665618

Sanjay Arora

2011-07-05 13:46:43 UTC

Permalink

Actually I had thought of that...hiring a consultant to do the tuning of the
cloud install...but some people are telling me that such tuning is going to
be an ongoing job and I will have to keep on doing it thereby adding enough
consultant cost to my itty-bitty project, so as to make cloud cost gains
redundant.

Is the issue faced one-time at install or am I going to face it again and
again?

And I assume I would face those issues on all virtual computers, wether at
Amazone or linode?

Rgds.
Sanjay.
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David Ponzone

2011-07-05 15:01:38 UTC

Permalink

I am not sure I understand the reason for a cloud solution.
Most of the time, it costs quite exactly the same and even more than a dedicated server.

There are probably good reasons to go for the cloud, but I think I am missing most of them;

David Ponzone Direction Technique
email: david.ponzone at ipeva.fr
tel: 01 74 03 18 97
gsm: 06 66 98 76 34

Service Client IPeva
tel: 0811 46 26 26
www.ipeva.fr - www.ipeva-studio.com

Ce message et toutes les pi?ces jointes sont confidentiels et ?tablis ? l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autoris?e est interdite. Tout message ?lectronique est susceptible d'alt?ration. IPeva d?cline toute responsabilit? au titre de ce message s'il a ?t? alt?r?, d?form? ou falsifi?. Si vous n'?tes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le d?truire imm?diatement et d'avertir l'exp?diteur.

Post by Giovanni Maruzzelli
Honest: if you are not very, very, very into knowledge about kernels,
how kernels keep timing, xen, FreeSWITCH, etc (but very into
knowledge) *don't* put a production system in the cloud.
Ask some consultant to do it for you (if you want to be in the cloud),
or rent a real hardware server from some good server provider.
-giovanni
Actually I had thought of that...hiring a consultant to do the tuning of the cloud install...but some people are telling me that such tuning is going to be an ongoing job and I will have to keep on doing it thereby adding enough consultant cost to my itty-bitty project, so as to make cloud cost gains redundant.
Is the issue faced one-time at install or am I going to face it again and again?
And I assume I would face those issues on all virtual computers, wether at Amazone or linode?
Rgds.
Sanjay.
_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list
FreeSWITCH-users at lists.freeswitch.org
http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users
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Sanjay Arora

2011-07-05 15:18:58 UTC

Permalink

Post by David Ponzone
I am not sure I understand the reason for a cloud solution.
Most of the time, it costs quite exactly the same and even more than a dedicated server.
There are probably good reasons to go for the cloud, but I think I am missing most of them;

For me its scaling up, without much work. Starting up I start up with a
small EC2 instance, about 35$/month plus few dollars in bandwidth & I/O
charges, similar to an entry level linode or synapseglobal vps.

But migrating to a higher instance, medium instance around 175$ & so on.
Snapshop backups are so easy in amazon, that I would not have setup &
installation headaches again....simply save the instance to EBS & boot up in
a medium or large instance......or so I think ;-)

Many times I do tend to go on without understanding....so seeking third
party confirmation before I embark ;-)

Sanjay.
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Ken Rice

2011-07-05 15:44:09 UTC

Permalink

For $175 you can easily rent a full Dedicated Server w/ money left Over...

Heck for $200 I?ll rent you 2 dedicated servers

Post by David Ponzone
I am not sure I understand the reason for a cloud solution.
Most of the time, it costs quite exactly the same and even more than a
dedicated server.
There are probably good reasons to go for the cloud, but I think I am missing
most of them;

For me its scaling up, without much work. Starting up I start up with a small
EC2 instance, about 35$/month plus few dollars in bandwidth & I/O charges,
similar to an entry level linode or synapseglobal vps.
But migrating to a higher instance, medium instance around 175$ & so on.
Snapshop backups are so easy in amazon, that I would not have setup &
installation headaches again....simply save the instance to EBS & boot up in a
medium or large instance......or so I think ;-)
Many times I do tend to go on without understanding....so seeking third party
confirmation before I embark ;-)
Sanjay.?
_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
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http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
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Sanjay Arora

2011-07-05 15:52:16 UTC

Permalink

Post by Ken Rice
For $175 you can easily rent a full Dedicated Server w/ money left Over...
Heck for $200 I?ll rent you 2 dedicated servers
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind ;-)

But is scaling to a higher server as easy as it would be in Amazon...just
boot up in a higher instance....or am I deluding myself?

Sanjay.
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Ken Rice

2011-07-05 16:03:54 UTC

Permalink

Its not specifically that easy, however keep in mind, that a $100 Dedicated
server, on reasonable bandwidth will probably handle more traffic then you
can imagine...

Post by Ken Rice

Post by Ken Rice
For $175 you can easily rent a full Dedicated Server w/ money left Over...
Heck for $200 I?ll rent you 2 dedicated servers

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind ;-)
But is scaling to a higher server as easy as it would be in Amazon...just boot
up in a higher instance....or am I deluding myself?
Sanjay.
_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list
FreeSWITCH-users at lists.freeswitch.org
http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
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Chris Hemmings

2011-07-05 16:17:11 UTC

Permalink

I must admit I'm a bit of a Cloud/VM fan. The thought of not having to
think about the actual hardware you are running on is quite liberating.

Not having to worry about 'what if my server dies' is quite nice.

Creating a quick instance based on the one I'm currently running to test
something and not be tied into a X month contract.

Adding/Removing capacity to my VM as and when I want to.

Chris

Post by Ken Rice
Its not specifically that easy, however keep in mind, that a $100
Dedicated server, on reasonable bandwidth will probably handle more traffic
then you can imagine...
For $175 you can easily rent a full Dedicated Server w/ money left Over...
Heck for $200 I?ll rent you 2 dedicated servers
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind ;-)
But is scaling to a higher server as easy as it would be in Amazon...just
boot up in a higher instance....or am I deluding myself?
Sanjay.
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
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Steven Ayre

2011-07-05 16:29:45 UTC

Permalink

Post by Chris Hemmings
Not having to worry about 'what if my server dies' is quite nice.

You still have to worry about that though. What if process X crashes? What
if the data centre fails. What if the data centre has an outage and loses
all your data (
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2007/10/02/amazon-ec2-outage-wipes-out-data/
)

It just encourages people to be complacent because it becomes someone elses
problem and because since they're paying for it to be managed for them
they're assuming nothing can go wrong.

-Steve

Post by Chris Hemmings
I must admit I'm a bit of a Cloud/VM fan. The thought of not having to
think about the actual hardware you are running on is quite liberating.
Not having to worry about 'what if my server dies' is quite nice.
Creating a quick instance based on the one I'm currently running to test
something and not be tied into a X month contract.
Adding/Removing capacity to my VM as and when I want to.
Chris

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Giovanni Maruzzelli

2011-07-05 16:38:19 UTC

Permalink

No way you can run a production voice server on a small instance.
You need at least, at lest, a medium instance.
That's because of how irq are handled.
Reason to be in the cloud is automatica geo load bancing, automatic
start of instances on traffic spikes.
That begins to be cost effective when you run at least some virtual machines.
In your case, go for dedicated hardware ;)
-giovanni

Post by Steven Ayre

Post by Chris Hemmings
Not having to worry about 'what if my server dies' is quite nice.

You still have to worry about that though. What if process X crashes? What
if the data centre fails. What if the data centre has an outage and loses
all your data (
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2007/10/02/amazon-ec2-outage-wipes-out-data/
)
It just encourages people to be complacent because it becomes someone elses
problem and because since they're paying for it to be managed for them
they're assuming nothing can go wrong.
-Steve

--
Sent from my mobile device

Sincerely,

Giovanni Maruzzelli
Cell : +39-347-2665618

Ken Rice

2011-07-05 16:41:59 UTC

Permalink

Who said anything about a X month contract? Not to mention what happens when
instance X goes batty and takes out Instance Y or at the minimal impacts CPU
and I/O performance and leaves you with crappy sounding calls...

Sure ?cloud? resource have some things that could be nice, like on demand
adding a webserver or the like, but that?s all store/forward services, not
real time services... I?m not willing to impact the call quality of a
customer generating $1000s in monthly billables to save $50 by using a $50
EC2 instance when I can get a dedicated server for $100 to $150 and be
assured that someone elses crazy process isnt going to affect mine...

Sure this doesn?t address issues such as bandwidth but you have that to deal
with regardless of EC2 or Dedicated Server...

Maybe I?ve just spent to much time dealing in the carrier arena where things
like capacity and quality matter...

K

I must admit I'm a bit of a Cloud/VM fan. ?The thought of not having to think
about the actual hardware you are running on is quite liberating.
Not having to worry about 'what if my server dies' is quite nice.
Creating a quick instance based on the one I'm currently running to test
something and not be tied into a X month contract.
Adding/Removing capacity to my VM as and when I want to.
Chris

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Ken Rice <krice at freeswitch.org

Post by Ken Rice
For $175 you can easily rent a full Dedicated Server w/ money left Over...
Heck for $200 I?ll rent you 2 dedicated servers

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind ;-)
But is scaling to a higher server as easy as it would be in Amazon...just
boot up in a higher instance....or am I deluding myself?
Sanjay.
_______________________________________________
Join us at ClueCon 2011, Aug 9-11, Chicago
http://www.cluecon.com 877-7-4ACLUE
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FreeSWITCH-users at lists.freeswitch.org
<http://FreeSWITCH-users at lists.freeswitch.org>
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Kerem Erciyes

2011-07-09 12:02:25 UTC

Permalink

Hi,

Just wanted to plug that Linode is satisfactorily like AWS Clouds. You can
get routine snapshots (called backups), stack-scripts to deploy more servers
of the same nature and geographical distribution.

I've been using Linodes for 2 years now and very happy with it.

I also have a t1.micro AWS instance running a test setup of FreeSwitch so if
anybody want to try some test via Skype or SIP just let me know.

Ciao,
Kerem

Kerem Erciyes - Sistem Danismani
http://keremerciyes.com
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